Magneto date stamp??

[tammyanddaveky]

I missed this in all my other "rambeling" posts.

The frame # on ours is 24MCS/2/808...when engine apart, on the magneto, far right hand side was 2/63...that is why we have gone with a date of 1963, though I know the frame was produced in 1961.

Is this a good method?

There were a ton of stamped #'s and hand etched #'s...but nothing resembling a date.

Thanks guys!
Tammy

[Colin Sparrow]

Heck of a story about your scrambler, and thanks for posting it. Can I "lift" it for the GRA magazine, "Leading Link"? The majority of our members aren't forum users (yet?), so I'd like to share it with them.

The MCS was available from 1961 to 1963. Engines and engine componenets can be changed, the definitive guide for dating has to be the frame number. That looks to be a late number, so I would have thought 1963 was a reasonable estimate. Others may know more, of course...

[tammyanddaveky]

Thanks Collin, I am still in awe of the response for her...seemed for awhile everyone thought us crazy for messing with..mmm, "The old hunk of junk" is what they most commonly used.

We never stopped loving or believing in her though....as I have said...she does speak to me!

You may do whatever you like with the pictures..I was unable to attach them, so added to my new myspace site...which I am still trying to figure out...I am what they call here "A gearhead"...would rather be tinkering on a bike motor, riding, or something of that nature, than pecking away at the computer....Thanks again, and I think we are difinetly on the right track with the year.

In fact...she is calling me now from the shop....must ride this am as a heat advisory for today....hope the mud has dried out, otherwise I will stick to the road and grass....road my Honda 150 yesterday in the "swamp" or the trails through the woods...just muck and I got a little over zealous and slammed down pretty hard, darn motocross boot stayed put and it did a number on my knee...LOL...thats what its all about though...to learn you must crash and hurt....but, no crying in dirtbike riding as they say!.
..With the Greeves I am much more careful with her.....I love the vintage tanks and fenders...but must say the newer plastic makes do bounce back much better...LOL.
Sorry, there I go again...rambling!

Have a great one!
Tammy

[Peter Rotherham]

Magneto Stamping.etc.,

Hi,

I've read the story. I'm no expert on the Scrambles range, but the Frame No 24MCS 2/808 seems suspect to me. It may be a replacement frame (explaining the '2' in the number). Although I agree the '808' is a late number given the quantities built.
The MCS or Bickers Special, as it was known, was phased out at the time of the Earls Court Show in late 1962, to be replaced with the 24MDS. This had the 36A engine with it's relieved casings. Therefore the likelihood of a '63 MCS is remote........unless it was exported or held up unsold in a dealership until that year.
You say that your 'bike has a 36A engine. MCS had a 34A engine. Given that Type plates can be changed of course, the serial 085E is for a 36A Competition type as used in the RAS Silverstone Racer and 24MDS Scrambler.
The Magneto flywheel, if correct to the engine, (a 34A unit with Square Barrel), should be stamped "R.136 2/63" to show that it is a competition type. It should be bare brass, without the additional heavy lead ring. However, as Colin has said, components can be changed easily. If, early in it's life, it had a magneto problem, a newer, more magnetised flywheel COULD have been fitted, or even a whole new engine!

I've looked at the photo's, (lovely job of restoration!), and it's even more confusing. To all intents and purposes its an MDS. It has the post 63 fork loop and front brake set up, and many other MDS features. But the Frame No is clear to see.......I think that the history of it hinges on the '2' on its own in the number.

After this length of time, I guess a few months aren't going to be important, so if you want it to be early '63 for a general age date, then I don't suppose it matters, although I'd tend to err on the cautious side and say mid '62.

Does this help?

Peter Rotherham.

[Bearingman]

Hi,

I've read the story. I'm no expert on the Scrambles range, but the Frame No 24MCS 2/808 seems suspect to me. It may be a replacement frame (explaining the '2' in the number). Although I agree the '808' is a late number given the quantities built.
The MCS or Bickers Special, as it was known, was phased out at the time of the Earls Court Show in late 1962, to be replaced with the 24MDS. This had the 36A engine with it's relieved casings. Therefore the likelihood of a '63 MCS is remote........unless it was exported or held up unsold in a dealership until that year.
You say that your 'bike has a 36A engine. MCS had a 34A engine. Given that Type plates can be changed of course, the serial 085E is for a 36A Competition type as used in the RAS Silverstone Racer and 24MDS Scrambler.
The Magneto flywheel, if correct to the engine, (a 34A unit with Square Barrel), should be stamped "R.136 2/63" to show that it is a competition type. It should be bare brass, without the additional heavy lead ring. However, as Colin has said, components can be changed easily. If, early in it's life, it had a magneto problem, a newer, more magnetised flywheel COULD have been fitted, or even a whole new engine!

After this length of time, I guess a few months aren't going to be important, so if you want it to be early '63 for a general age date, then I don't suppose it matters, although I'd tend to err on the cautious side and say mid '62.

Does this help?

Peter Rotherham.

Hi Peter,

The 24MCS/2 was an export model to the USA for Nicholson Motors. This model was based on the homeland's 24MDS, the MCS/2 might have had different g/b ratios and most that I have come across had folding footrest with a larger steel fuel tank and a 19 inch front wheel for cross country events. They were quite successful in the California desert races and many were sold here.

I think they came to the states starting in 1962 through 1964...a later version came in as an MDS but with a Challenger top end, glass fiber tank and muffler.

Oh, and they came with either a 34A or 36A motors. The 24MD was the same model but with an iron barrel.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Kenny Sykes

[Brian Thompson]

Peter, Kenny....your knowledge never ceases to amaze.

Brilliant.

Brian.

[Bearingman]

Peter, Kenny....your knowledge never ceases to amaze.

Brilliant.

Brian.

Thanks Brian!

This forum is great and it really is fun to contribute when I can.

You guys all have been great.

Kenny

[Colin Sparrow]

Yes, I thought there would have been some late MCS models still finding their way through the dealerships in 1963, although the MDS was available that year. So 1962-built, 1963-sold is the most likely scenario?

[Peter Rotherham]

MCS 2..........(Mag Date Stamp)

Hi.

Thanks Kenny. That explains it perfectly. I knew that the '2' would have a great bearing on what we were dealing with. Like all other manufacturers of 'bikes at that time, the US represented a valuable market, and 'specially built to order' machines were normal. The most obvious, as you say, is the 19" front wheel, (Which I thought always made the US bikes look tougher that the UK's models with spindly 21" wheels). This practise continues today. During my time as a mechanic, we quite often had 'export' bikes in for sale from suppliers and had to change quite a few parts to make them UK friendly. BMW had different Carb settings & wiring looms, the Japanese 'big 4' had daytime lights and 'riding lights' (indicators permanently on). Oddly, Harley Davidson just did one type for the entire world market!

So...I've learnt something new about the MCS 2. It looks like Tammy has got a '63 model after all.

Thanks. Peter R.

[tammyanddaveky]

Thanks Everyone!

Hi ya'll!

Thanks for all the input and the invaluable knowledge!

It just goes to show the stories that these bikes would tell if they could talk!
I know my bikes "communicate" with me via vibes...but how fabulous would it be if we could line these machines up around a campfire and just let them tell their stories!!! AMAZING!

Thanks Peter, Kenny, Brian and everyone in general...I can't express in words enough what a huge help you have been, nor can I express how valuable your knowledge and stories are! Again, I am very humbled!

Have a great day!
Tammy

[tammyanddaveky]

Hi.

Thanks Kenny. That explains it perfectly. I knew that the '2' would have a great bearing on what we were dealing with. Like all other manufacturers of 'bikes at that time, the US represented a valuable market, and 'specially built to order' machines were normal. The most obvious, as you say, is the 19" front wheel, (Which I thought always made the US bikes look tougher that the UK's models with spindly 21" wheels). This practise continues today. During my time as a mechanic, we quite often had 'export' bikes in for sale from suppliers and had to change quite a few parts to make them UK friendly. BMW had different Carb settings & wiring looms, the Japanese 'big 4' had daytime lights and 'riding lights' (indicators permanently on). Oddly, Harley Davidson just did one type for the entire world market!

So...I've learnt something new about the MCS 2. It looks like Tammy has got a '63 model after all.

Thanks. Peter R.

Good afternoon Peter,
I had to throw this your way, hope to give you a smile....We stayed with the 19 inch front wheel, and as I said went Motocross on front and back because of the crazy clay soil we have here...the front trials constantly spun, would result in the back end gripping and the front not...hard for me, as I was and still am just learning to ride....so I LOVE Armorall on my seats...on my Honda CRF 150 it helps for sliding my bottom front and back depending on conditions....Dave HATES Armorall...well I kept putting it on the Greeves...so now you constantly slide down the seat on the Greeves while riding, it makes it very interesting and sometimes downright frustrating...because with the 19" wheel you tend to slide forward anyway, especially since we went with different bars on the restore...she had higher rising bars with the mid bar...anyway, I have decided...no more compulsive wipe downs with Armorall for Eleanor's seat....