Greeves Lighting?

[Eddie Smith]

As I previously mentioned I have two bikes which I am restoring and when I bought them I also became the owner of a few boxes of parts mostly in poor condition. Today started to sort through some taped up cardboard boxes and found a complete Miller lighting kit in the pale blue colour, headlamp with lighting switch ( on/off/dim ) wiring harness , chrome dip switch and wiring to rear light (Miller). It had some sort of preservative all over the parts and covered in dust, after a while cleaning I was pleased to find it is in very good condition and had never been fitted. There is no provision for a brake light in the rear light, just a single contact 6V bulb, and there is an interesting clip inside the headlight to carry a 2 cell bicycle battery ( the ones my dad used to have on his bike at the front) which gives a parking light through the dim position on the headlamp. Would like your comments, pretty sure its for a Greeves as its colour is the same as my roadster tank and headlamp etc. Regards Eddie

[John Wakefield]

Sounds like a optional lighting kit for TA Scottish. Somewhere in the wiring there should be a 2 pin plug that goes into top of crankcase on a 32A or 9E engine.
Just simple direct AC lighting, as per this diagram http://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/for...0&d=1418812659

[Eddie Smith]

Greeves lighting

John you echo my thoughts but interesting that a 2 cell battery is used inside the headlamp for parking, that's a new one for me. In another box I found the two pin plug which had been cut off the wiring. The pale blue headlamp seem odd as Scottish colours don't match. Would be interested if other members have come across this lighting set up. I assume that brake lights were a legal requirement in 1961, I was a MOT tester when MOT testing started but not on bikes, its a long while ago and can't remember what the lighting regs were then.
Just a quick comment on the Greeves Moorland Blue RAL 5001 paint code, a couple of suppliers show stock on Ebay at a very reasonable £18.50/ litre has anyone tried it, compared to some suppliers its less than half price. They also supply powder coating which would not be my choice.

[Greevesnut]

Greeves lighting

Eddie, the pale blue headlamp shell is correct. It is listed in the Greeves factory Parts Lists for all Scottish models 1958 to 1961 inclusive as Headlamp - Miller 6" 60 (not sure what the 60 refers to). You should also have four mounting brackets that look like 1/2" tubes with bent ends that mounted the headlamp onto the handlebar bolts at the top and to the front trials number plate bolts at the bottom. The whole thing is incredibly ugly when fitted and looks like something stolen from a 1930's bike!
The headlamp, brackets, switch, dip switch and rear light were all optional extras. The rear light is listed as a Miller type 39E which would have had only the rear light bulb and no provision at that time for a stop light.

In later years Miller modified the rear light to accept a stop/tail light, and this can be done reasonably easily oneself. Alternatively I have seen them at autojumbles occasionally.

I guess the headlamp was painted in pale blue, otherwise know as Essex Grey,
to match the 1957/8 Scottish petrol tank, then carried forward unchanged over the years until 1961.
If you look at photos some of the factory ISDT bikes of that period you can see that they cut off about the rear 2" or 3" of the headlamp shell and welded on a flat plate. This brought the headlamp much closer to the forks, saved weight and looked less ugly. Nowadays, original Scottish headlamp kits are fairly rare as I guess not many were ever sold or used.

Peter

[Eddie Smith]

Greeves Lighting

Peter - you have described the kit correctly to the smallest detail, I have the brackets but they are in the dark blue colour and the numbers mention are correct. You did not mention the provision for a battery, I assume that the battery carrier inside the headlamp was included in the kit and not a later mod. I am going to connect it all to a 6v supply and check it out, I assume the dim position on headlamp switch is side lamps as it has a handlebar mounted dip switch. Thanks for your input I its so interesting to find out history of these parts.

[John Wakefield]

Peter - you have described the kit correctly to the smallest detail, I have the brackets but they are in the dark blue colour and the numbers mention are correct. You did not mention the provision for a battery, I assume that the battery carrier inside the headlamp was included in the kit and not a later mod. I am going to connect it all to a 6v supply and check it out, I assume the dim position on headlamp switch is side lamps as it has a handlebar mounted dip switch. Thanks for your input I its so interesting to find out history of these parts.

The dim position (as shown in diagram) switches the dry battery to pilot bulb.
It is also worth mentioning that the second (small) pin on the plug is for the stop light if fitted. Both pins are positive with the small one connected to a lower output lighting coil. Earth return for both is via the frame.

[Eddie Smith]

Greeves Lighting

Must apologise to John just clicked on his link to wiring diagram and its now clear about the kit, sure I clicked on it before and it did not come up but I see I have been upgraded to GRA Member was that the reason - Thanks all.

[Brian Thompson]

Greeves Wiring Diagrams....

Thought I recognised that factory option lighting set diagram...it's the one I scanned and uploaded on this thread..... (see post #2.)

http://greeves-riders.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=4739&highlight=greeves+wiring+diagrams

Glad it was of help.

Brian.

[Greevesnut]

Greeves Lighting

Eddie, the dry battery clip inside the headlamp shell is correct and original.
Your four mounting brackets are correctly finished in Moorland Blue.
If you have a part number for them I can tell you which Scottish model they are for.
This may save you a bit of head scratching as the 1957-1960 Scottish used one set with the bracket ends bent to suit the mountings on those models, and the 1961 TDS had slightly different bends on the brackets to suit the mountings on the 'new' Scottish.
Your Miller ON/OFF/DIM switch is correct for the headlamp and can only be used for a Direct Lighting system.
If you get the system up and running beware of the well known problem with it, which is with the engine running and all the lights are on when you use the dip switch all the current momentarily passes to the tail light as the dip mechanism changes between contacts resulting in the tail light blowing. Apparently a continuous contact dip switch is the answer to the problem, but I've never been able to find one or find anyone that knows of a source.
To prevent the tail light blowing on a regular basis you need to keep the engine revs down when using the dip switch, all a bit of joke really as the 6v direct lighting system was only ever barely legal and is easily out shone by modern head torches.
Peter

[Dogsbody]

I restored a Bantam some years ago and they suffered the same problem. I bought a 6v regulator from Rex Caunt that stops the excess voltage. Dogsbody

[John Wakefield]

You used to be able to buy 'make before break' dip switches but a voltage regulator would be a good mod as these direct lighting systems are well prone to blowing bulbs.

[Eddie Smith]

Greeves Lighting

Thanks all for your info its good to know when and on what this kit was used, its now polished up and put away, yet to decide what to do with it.