Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Glass fibre petrol tanks and problems with Ethanol in pump fuel.

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Mike Tizard also has problems with the glass fibre tank leaking on his Truimph Challenger special (LL 154)

    Comment


    • #17
      See post #6 (page1) on this thread for Mike Tizard's contribution.

      Brian.
      Last edited by Brian Thompson; 04/08/2010, 02:40 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Had the same problem with the C*tt*n fibreglass tank with it splitting the joint along the seams and depositing all sorts of goo in to the Amal. Might explain why the piston slap has almost disappeared though...

        I've been looking for a suitable sealer and as said previously, Petseal is for metallic tanks only. When I built the thing in 2003, I did use Petseal to line the tank and it has lasted the best part of 6 years before it finally bubbled and flaked off.

        The only thing I've found for fibreglass tanks so far is:

        Get verities of Fuel Tank Sealer Products at low Price from our Online Shop Caswell Europe. We deal with high quality Gas Tank Sealer Products. Visit today!


        Its around £45 a pot but should be one way of keeping my original tank going. I'll be happy to report back when the exercise is complete.

        Comment


        • #19
          See post #7 (page1) on this thread for the same link (Caswell) and further related info.

          Brian.

          Comment


          • #20
            Glass fibre fuel tanks

            As both of my Greeves have Glass Fibre tanks I'm particularly interested in this topic. There was a thought that some of the expensive fuel options, Shell V power and BP Ultimate for example, do not contain Ethanol and therefore will not harm the tank. I therefore contacted both Shell and BP via their website. I've yet to get a response from Shell but BP had this to say.

            Thank you for your email.

            Our regualar grade gasoline does contain up to 5% bio ethanol in compliance with EN228 gasoline specification allowance in most regions of the UK.
            However, in most regions of the UK our Ultimate Unleaded does not contain any Ethanol at present (South West UK excluded). This may of course change in the future as the specification allows up to 5%.
            I hope this information helps.


            Well thank you Andrea from BP, it does help. I will certainly be paying that little extra in future and putting BP Ultimate in the tank!!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by MikeTizard View Post
              As both of my Greeves have Glass Fibre tanks I'm particularly interested in this topic. There was a thought that some of the expensive fuel options, Shell V power and BP Ultimate for example, do not contain Ethanol and therefore will not harm the tank. I therefore contacted both Shell and BP via their website. I've yet to get a response from Shell but BP had this to say.

              Thank you for your email.

              Our regualar grade gasoline does contain up to 5% bio ethanol in compliance with EN228 gasoline specification allowance in most regions of the UK.
              However, in most regions of the UK our Ultimate Unleaded does not contain any Ethanol at present (South West UK excluded). This may of course change in the future as the specification allows up to 5%.
              I hope this information helps.


              Well thank you Andrea from BP, it does help. I will certainly be paying that little extra in future and putting BP Ultimate in the tank!!



              Picking up on Mike’s latest research reports, problems with glass fibre fuel tanks are increasing as the inclusion of ethanol in unleaded petrol becomes more widespread. Ethanol was reported to have been included in Shell-V for some time now.

              From published statements 2010 is an optional lead-in year and indications are that all diesel and unleaded fuel will meet government target guidelines by 1st January 2011 and E10 spec by 2013.

              Dave McGregor informed me that as a result of the problems he’s experienced he has been contacting fuel companies, Their response suggests that nationwide, with the exception of a few terminals which are still being upgraded, the majority of unleaded petrol contains ethanol. As garage till-staff are unlikely to know the spec of their fuel stock and labelling is only required when the ethanol content exceeds 5% the customer, at present, has no way of knowing what he is purchasing.

              Bayford Oils have continued to supply leaded petrol to support classic vehicle needs for some years now and at the time of enquiring their leaded petrol did not include ethanol. It was pointed out though that at some point they would have to comply.

              As a niche market, outlets are limited for leaded fuel but if there is one near you that may be a solution for a while.

              Browsing the internet it would seem that these problems have been around in other countries, particularly parts of the USA and Australia, for a decade or so and the only clearly established solutions seem to entail the replacement of vulnerable components with those made with proven resilient materials.



              Mike Eady

              Comment


              • #22
                Ethanol issues, etc.

                Many thanks for the update Mike.

                I had a lengthy phone call from Maurice Hunt a week or so ago, and he too has been making enquiries regarding ethanol with the technical specialists at several leading petrol suppliers. His findings tend to support your latest information as detailed above, sadly.

                Brian.
                Last edited by Brian Thompson; 20/09/2010, 12:16 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Glass fibre fuel tanks

                  Originally posted by MikeTizard View Post
                  As both of my Greeves have Glass Fibre tanks I'm particularly interested in this topic. There was a thought that some of the expensive fuel options, Shell V power and BP Ultimate for example, do not contain Ethanol and therefore will not harm the tank. I therefore contacted both Shell and BP via their website. I've yet to get a response from Shell but BP had this to say.

                  Thank you for your email.

                  Our regualar grade gasoline does contain up to 5% bio ethanol in compliance with EN228 gasoline specification allowance in most regions of the UK.
                  However, in most regions of the UK our Ultimate Unleaded does not contain any Ethanol at present (South West UK excluded). This may of course change in the future as the specification allows up to 5%.
                  I hope this information helps.


                  Well thank you Andrea from BP, it does help. I will certainly be paying that little extra in future and putting BP Ultimate in the tank!!

                  Hi Mike,

                  Did you get a new petrol tank for your Challenger/Triumph? How is it bearing up with the new fuels? I'm very interested in hearing, as my Challenger tank seems to have sticky gunge oozing from every pore! I was going to try lining it, but that might be OK in tanks which have not had 45 years of pre-mix sloshing around in them, but I think its too far gone.

                  The Natterjack was brilliant this weekend by the way!

                  Cheers,
                  Andrew

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Hi Andy,

                    I've just put a new tank on and it apprears to be OK. That said, I left it nearly full for a couple of weeks and I'm sure the sides felt softer. Perhaps it was my imagination, but now i leave it drained down with just a small amount in the bottom to keep the fuel tap cork from drying out.

                    If i'm going on a run and likely to use the fuel i fill it, but leaving it full with a substance that MAY damage the tank does not seem right. It's easy enough to drain down every time, so it makes sense.

                    I'm glad you enjoyed Natterjack. I've just checked the results and i can't find Andy Z anywhere! As you could see, we put a great deal of effort into getting it right and for the most part it goes well. I'm assisted by a great team of helpers and having 40 young "volunteer" marshals helps in controlling things. Did you do the wall??

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Hi Mike,

                      I hope it was just your imagination, as I was intending to buy one of those tanks!

                      Unfortunately you won't find me on the results this year as I was only spectating! I have competed in the Natterjack a couple of times a few years ago, but stopped doing it due a growing family. Now that they are old enough to help out, I'm planning to get back into the sport next year, fitness allowing. Having said that, I think I would have to dig the old Montesa out to do "the wall"!

                      I have to say that the thing about this event which never ceases to impress me and the kids is not just how well organised it all is, but how helpful and polite all your "volunteers" are. Truly amazing in this day and age!

                      All the best,
                      Andrew

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Andrew,

                        We pride ourselves in trying to make NJ a special event. Some the BEC rounds in Wales are set up in a farm yard with no thought to presentation. We try to make a special effort. I'm always grateful for the hepl and assistance of our "volunteers" they give up their weekend for no real gain, but hopefully we sow a seed!! I always thank them after the big clean up on the Sunday night (yes the whole lot has to come down with not a scrap of litter to be seen) but it is nice to get another vote of thanks.

                        This was my last as clerk of the course for a while as i have to head off to Aphgan for a few omnths and I doubt if i will be back before Sep. I will continue to keep a watching brief though.

                        Regards

                        Mike

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Glassfibre vs Ethanol

                          This subject has taken off in a big way........the Sept/Oct 2010 Motorcycle press have a number of articles on it.
                          Basically it's the ****ing EU again and their silly rules. Apparently a piece of legislation called the Rewnewable Transport Fuel Obligation came into force this year, (Yes, I didn't know either!), which says that 5% of all road vehicle fuel must contain a renewable source, (Ethanol).
                          There is a very good article on this in OLD BIKE MART - Oct.

                          I'd suspected fuel constituents for some years now as it was causing untold grief in the world of vintage engines, but thought it to be the unleaded aromatics. We now know that the Oil Cartels have been experimenting with all sorts of chemicals to meet eco-rules.

                          I suspect this will be a good cause for FHBVC.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            The FBHVC are indeed getting their head around it. Their latest newsletter has an article on the topic and we will be reproducing it in the next Leading Link. I believe Anglian Man may also be adding to the debate..?

                            FBHVC always approach issues like this carefully and make sure of all their facts, so I'm sure there is more to come from them.

                            Basically though it is not just fibreglass tanks that are affected. Apparently it makes steel tanks rust above the fuel level. The proof of that is sitting out in my garage! According to FBHVC ethanol also affects (attacks?):

                            Zinc and galvanised metals
                            Brass
                            Copper
                            Lead/tin coated steel
                            Some aluminium alloys, E100 supect?

                            Buna-N seals
                            Neoprene seals
                            Urathane rubber

                            Polyeurethane
                            Some polymers
                            Nylon 66
                            Fibreglass-reinforced polyester and epoxy resins
                            Shellac

                            Cork

                            And apparently that's not all. I reckon that means that vintage and classic vehicles can't be used with fuel containing ethanol. Period.

                            This clearly has a long way to run.

                            Peter, my subscription to OBM has lapsed. Any chance you could send me a copy of the article please? New address in latest Leading Link.
                            Colin Sparrow

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Glass Fibre Tanks - Ethanol

                              Hi Col.

                              Yes of course.

                              You'll see that much of what you've said appears in OBM.

                              See you soon.

                              P.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Peter Rotherham View Post
                                Hi Col.

                                Yes of course.

                                You'll see that much of what you've said appears in OBM.

                                See you soon.

                                P.
                                Very much obliged mate!
                                Colin Sparrow

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X