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Tracing my TE to Scotland

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  • Tracing my TE to Scotland

    I received back the results from my GRA frame dating service courtesy of Peter Smith today for my TE250. It proved to be interesting reading insomuch as my bike had not originally been despatched to a Greeves agent but was despatched (fitted with the optional rock guards and lights) to Scotland's National Motor Club Magazine. It throws up a possibility in my mind that there may be original records/photos of it somewhere in Scotland. Ive looked on-line but cannot find the Scottish National Motor club to be in existence any more. I have the original logbook with the original registration (although it was re-registered in 1984). Does anyone have any idea where I could start my search?? Peter has suggested contacting John Henry asking him to put an appeal in the LLink magazine and so I will be following his advice too.

  • #2
    You could try the County Record Office for the county where the bike was first registered. What is the original registration number? from that I can give you the address of the office. But you say you have the original log book, so name and address of the first owner should be in there. Is it the Scotland's National Motor Club Magazine?
    Last edited by John Wakefield; 12/06/2017, 11:47 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by John Wakefield View Post
      You could try the County Record Office for the county where the bike was first registered. What is the original registration number? from that I can give you the address of the office. But you say you have the original log book, so name and address of the first owner should be in there. Is it the Scotland's National Motor Club Magazine?
      The log book only goes back to 1971.(in which case I don't have the first original one) I presume there was an earlier one that I don't have. Its had a few owners over the years. The original registration number was: 7030 SF
      Peter said that the records show the despatch record as showing Scotlands National Motor Club Magazine. I presume that the bike could have actually been registered in anyones name once it arrived there?

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      • #4
        SF registrations (Edinburgh B) are held by the Kithead Trust http://kitheadtrust.org.uk/vehicle_records_5.html
        but only up until 1948. You could try Edinburgh City Archives City Chambers High St Edinburgh EH1 1YJ tel 0131 5394093 but I dont think they will have them, but worth a call.
        So looks like you may not be able to get the info you want.
        A letter to Mike Worthington-Williams (Old Bike Mart) may trawl up a previous owner, or someone who knows of Scotlands National Motor Club Magazine
        The log book you have will be a continuation one, not the original as you say. Might be worth trying to contact some of the owners listed in the book though.
        I have checked 7030 SF and its not listed on DVLA. might be worth a call to them to see if its on their archived register. Its not on another vehicle, so it should be possible with the old log book of evidence to re claim the number.

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        • #5
          You might try to contact "The Trials Guru" aka John Moffatt, who knows almost everything that happens in Scotland (well, on 2 wheels!", or Deryk Wylde who publishes the Off-Road Revue.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by John Wakefield View Post
            SF registrations (Edinburgh B) are held by the Kithead Trust http://kitheadtrust.org.uk/vehicle_records_5.html
            but only up until 1948. You could try Edinburgh City Archives City Chambers High St Edinburgh EH1 1YJ tel 0131 5394093 but I dont think they will have them, but worth a call.
            So looks like you may not be able to get the info you want.
            A letter to Mike Worthington-Williams (Old Bike Mart) may trawl up a previous owner, or someone who knows of Scotlands National Motor Club Magazine
            The log book you have will be a continuation one, not the original as you say. Might be worth trying to contact some of the owners listed in the book though.
            I have checked 7030 SF and its not listed on DVLA. might be worth a call to them to see if its on their archived register. Its not on another vehicle, so it should be possible with the old log book of evidence to re claim the number.
            Thanks John,
            Some great leads there - as you say my quest may be unsuccessful but it will be fun trying. It would have been nice to get the bike back to completely original looks

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Brian Catt View Post
              You might try to contact "The Trials Guru" aka John Moffatt, who knows almost everything that happens in Scotland (well, on 2 wheels!", or Deryk Wylde who publishes the Off-Road Revue.
              Thanks Brian, all info gratefully received

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              • #8
                The link to John Moffat was really useful Brian,
                My bike was owned from new by Tommy Milton Jnr. His father Tommy Milton bought it for him as an incentive and it was delivered to him direct from Thundersley. Tommy Milton Jnr went on to win the Pinhard prize in 1967.

                Here is the link that I'm sure John won't mind me adding

                Tommy Milton was born in Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland in March, 1916. Sadly, his mother died a few days later, so he was raised in the home of his mother’s aunt. He attended Yardheads Primary School …

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MarkM View Post
                  The link to John Moffat was really useful Brian,
                  My bike was owned from new by Tommy Milton Jnr. His father Tommy Milton bought it for him as an incentive and it was delivered to him direct from Thundersley. Tommy Milton Jnr went on to win the Pinhard prize in 1967.

                  Here is the link that I'm sure John won't mind me adding

                  https://trialsguru.wordpress.com/201...if-you-prefer/
                  Bit of a breakthrough there Mark, do you know what the connection was with to Scotland's National Motor Club Magazine? would Tommy's father have been something to do with that & the bike was purchased via the magazine? Maybe Greeves would only sell it via a dealer or recognised trade establishment. Just need to find some pics of Tommy riding the bike.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by John Wakefield View Post
                    Bit of a breakthrough there Mark, do you know what the connection was with to Scotland's National Motor Club Magazine? would Tommy's father have been something to do with that & the bike was purchased via the magazine? Maybe Greeves would only sell it via a dealer or recognised trade establishment. Just need to find some pics of Tommy riding the bike.
                    The Scotland's National Motor Club Magazine was actually known as 'The Scottish Clubman', the editor of which was the late A.J. Stephen from Stonehaven. Tommy Milton senior was one of the founding fathers of this magazine.
                    The previous attached link article by John Moffat goes into further detail and actually mentions the bike being delivered to Tommy's son.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MarkM View Post
                      The Scotland's National Motor Club Magazine was actually known as 'The Scottish Clubman', the editor of which was the late A.J. Stephen from Stonehaven. Tommy Milton senior was one of the founding fathers of this magazine.
                      The previous attached link article by John Moffat goes into further detail and actually mentions the bike being delivered to Tommy's son.
                      Looks like he bought the bike through the 'firm' & presumably got it at trade price.
                      Would be nice to get original registration number back, with the old log book this should be possible via the DVLA V765 scheme https://www.gov.uk/government/public...tration-number
                      Best to check with DVLA first that the number is recoverable & has not been sold on & on a retention certificate

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                      • #12
                        What is the current registration number of your bike Mark?

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                        • #13
                          Pleased to say that I have been in contact with Tom Milton in USA thanks to John Moffat. Tom has confirmed it was his bike. I will be submitting a short article to John at Trials Guru and with his permission will forward link when available for those interested. Apparently there is a picture of Tom Jnr and senior taking delivery with a Greeves sales executive and also Robbie Allan, older brother of Vic, who was working for Greeves at the time.

                          In his correspondence Tom Milton mentioned that after my bike he owned a TFS which he said was a great bike. He said that he would love to know its whereabouts now. The registration was CSG 93C. If anyone has any info on this bike it would be great to pass it on to Tom. Thanks
                          Last edited by MarkM; 15/06/2017, 10:58 AM.

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                          • #14
                            is listed on the DVLA but untaxed since 1/4/82. Might be in someones hed. Frame number is 24TFS164. Listed as Red, presumably this refers to tank colour

                            CSG93C
                            Vehicle make: GREEVES
                            Date of first registration: January 1965
                            Cylinder capacity (cc): 250 cc
                            CO₂Emissions: Not available
                            Fuel type: PETROL
                            Export marker: No
                            Vehicle status: Not taxed
                            Vehicle colour: RED
                            Vehicle type approval: Not available
                            Wheelplan: 2 WHEEL
                            Revenue weight: Not available

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                            • #15
                              I am glad to say that with the help of Brian Catt, John Moffat and Tom Milton Jnr I have at last been able to trace my bikes history back to the day it left the Thundersley factory up to now.
                              I would be most grateful if anyone has or knows how I can possibly find the photos of the bike with Robbie Allan at Thundersley or if anyone can point me towards 1963 copies of The Scottish Clubman magazine.

                              The link to the article in trialsguru is below

                              Sometimes, Trials Guru is approached by individuals who have found a trials motorcycle and are keen to discover it’s history. We are not always able to assist due to the complexity of the tas…

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