Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Challenger MX3 Clutch

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Challenger MX3 Clutch

    I searched for this topic and couldn't find the answer but forgive me if it's been addressed before.

    I would like to know if this clutch pack looks correct. I am wondering if I am missing something, or do these only need two clutch plates? This how I got the bike, so I didn't lose anything...maybe the previous owner forgot. Anyhow, if I can get this sorted, I'll be happy.

    I only have drawings for a MX5 and Griffon clutch, I consulted those to no avail. I did put it together last night and has some trouble getting the pushrod to do anything at all, so I need to work on that too after I get this done. New primary chain looks MUCH better and I put a new main seal in while I was operating. So close!!

    Untitled by bendoregonian2002, on Flickr

    Untitled by bendoregonian2002, on Flickr

    Untitled by bendoregonian2002, on Flickr
    Last edited by Lmpetersen; 21/02/2018, 05:39 PM.

  • #2
    I should add that the reason for this question is that when I was assembling last night, I had ordered new clutch plates from Hitchcocks based on the Griffon drawings and so I got three. They fit just fine, but it seems that only two will fit. I also ordered new springs, and when I tighten them down they are compressed super tight.

    Comment


    • #3
      mx3 clutch

      I have Griffon clutches on both my 250 and 360 Challengers and once setup they work well and not having cork or fibre friction plates simply 7 brass and 7 steel plates they last years.
      I would strongly recommend this change. The rods mushroom ends and bearings are all available from Hitchcocks because the Enfields use the same gearbox parts. Last year I replaced the rods mushroom bearings AND kick start lever all from them. the clutch is nice and light.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Loren, I have a Challenger MX2 with the same Albion clutch and mine only has two plates. I have attached a diagram of the assembly. Nice challenger you have there btw.

        PS The clutch pushrod (113 in the diagram) also has a ball bearing (114 in the diagram) which often falls out and gets lost when the clutch is dismantled which might the reason it is not doing anything maybe?
        Attached Files
        Last edited by pgc40; 22/02/2018, 05:52 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank you for this, that's exactly what I needed! Well that is good news, so I will assemble in this fashion with the new clutch plates. I did notice the ball bearing luckily, and it is back in place.

          After I got it reassembled, the new springs (which are the light/heavy alternating Griffon springs as suggested) were tight, very tight, basically fully compressed. Is the proper method to tighten the star all the way down to the distance tubes?

          I am also having trouble now with the clutch lever. It seems that something went wrong with the adjuster on the shift side and now pulling the lever does nothing...even with the clutch basket removed. Its either totally loose, or rock solid. Not sure how it would have happened.

          Comment


          • #6
            UPDATE:

            After I put it all back together, seemed to be working fine. I took it to Greeves Days and the plates were sticking(was using 5w fork oil). On advice, I held the clutch in and rode it around but they just kept on sticking, and after improperly setting the adjuster without enough freeplay, I damaged the pushrod assembly.

            So, back to square one.... I now have a new basket, and plates, but I am in need of a pushrod. Can someone please provide the pushrod dimensions? If I cannot get a NOS one, I may have to make one. I will also use type F atf now, instead of fork oil.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi, to be honest with you, those early challenger clutches were rubbish, they gave up at the sign of any real power
              Set up right they will work, but no where near as good as a griffon unit....probably not what you want to hear, but worth spending out on a clutch that will do the job.

              Comment


              • #8
                I do keep hearing that, and I am beginning to come around to the idea. I keep missing opportunities to get one for an affordable price. But I will keep looking. In the meantime, I will still need that pushrod...

                Comment


                • #9
                  I used the Albion clutch for some years in my Silverstone before I found a Griffon clutch. What part of the pushrod got damaged, the mushroom head bit or the straight section?

                  I have had to make pushrods for both the Albion and Griffon clutches from 1/4" diameter silver steel (or drill rod, same stuff). Face this to correct length before heating each end to red hot and quench in water as quickly as possible and this will harden the ends where the ball bearing or adjusters contact the rods. I use nickel based anti-seize grease at each end (4 places).

                  I don't think the oil should have caused the clutch not to free, are you sure the plates are separating when the clutch lever is pulled in? Could be the adjuster at the gearbox end that can contact the end of the gearbox main shaft before it has moved the push rod far enough to separate the plates.

                  Getting the plates to free was never a problem with the Albion in my case, getting the clutch to stop slipping was another thing!

                  Stan

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think Loren has been sent a pushrod by the power of Facebook! Oh and Kenny Sykes! Perhaps the story will continue.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Stan Nicholson View Post
                      I used the Albion clutch for some years in my Silverstone before I found a Griffon clutch. What part of the pushrod got damaged, the mushroom head bit or the straight section?

                      I have had to make pushrods for both the Albion and Griffon clutches from 1/4" diameter silver steel (or drill rod, same stuff). Face this to correct length before heating each end to red hot and quench in water as quickly as possible and this will harden the ends where the ball bearing or adjusters contact the rods. I use nickel based anti-seize grease at each end (4 places).

                      I don't think the oil should have caused the clutch not to free, are you sure the plates are separating when the clutch lever is pulled in? Could be the adjuster at the gearbox end that can contact the end of the gearbox main shaft before it has moved the push rod far enough to separate the plates.

                      Getting the plates to free was never a problem with the Albion in my case, getting the clutch to stop slipping was another thing!

                      Stan
                      Thank you Stan, the long section was damaged, it was so badly peened that I don't think there was enough length to push. Because of this, I had adjusted it to the point of no freeplay....so the bearing, mushroom, and long section had fused together from constant friction. The problem with the clutch sticking was compounded by the lack of clearence as well so the tiny bit of clearence allowed the plates to spin and heat up and melt to the metal clutch plates. Anyhow....it was just a series of issues involving extreme heat.

                      Once I get all of the new parts, I will lay it all out and ask for some advice on final assembly.

                      Question regarding the bearing in between the rod and mushroom: The one that I removed was a little roller bearing. Should this be a ball bearing instead? Seems like a ball bearing would have less surface area to heat up.... But then again, I hope to not have this issue again.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Three rollers is best. I had a pushrod split that had a ball bearing between them and Geoff Nunn recommended three rollers. Dogsbody

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have had the same as the dog, three rollers most of the time and a few with the ball bearing. All good and cant tel the difference but then I usually just stick it in gear and jump the start most of the time.
                          Good luck with your clutch rebuild.
                          Craig

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The story continues:

                            New clutch basket installed, new pressure plate, new springs(soft/hard alternating), new plates......the bike now shifts smoothly into gear, runs great, rides..... and then a screeching sound. Sounds like a bearing out....but it only happens when the bike is in neutral and it goes away when the clutch is pulled.

                            My thoughts:

                            There is still a little bit of wobble on the basket so my theory is that the basket is rubbing on the pressure plate slightly and making the noise but of course when the plate is pushed out it goes away, and under load the wobble goes away as well.

                            The ONLY piece of the new clutch that I reused is the retainer ring..which I think would cause a wobble if its out of true. Thoughts on this theory?

                            I also am trying to acquire a Griffon clutch in the meantime...but I still want to fix this one on principle!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              When the clutch is engaged, all the components are as one, but you could have the rear of the basket fouling on the backplate & possible excess endfloat on the gearbox mainshaft, which have the effect of allowing the basket to move outwards & away from the backplate, clearing any obstruction when the clutch is released.
                              Also would apply to a dry bearing.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X