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Glass fibre petrol tanks and problems with Ethanol in pump fuel.

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  • #31
    Neoprene seals
    So this effectively means the end of two strokes as the crankcase seals are Neoprene are they not. Looks like our bikes will become worthless static exhibits.

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    • #32
      Ethanol, etc.,

      As a 'footnote' to this, I've been talking to some of my collegues who, like me, deal with the vagaries of the Local Authority system from time to time. In their efforts to be 100% Politically Correct, and to slavishly follow European Legislation, many of these 'Ivory Tower' establishments haver bought in draconian rulings which, despite being total nonsense and obviously doomed to failure, they have sunk a fortune in Council Tax into, only to find out that the General Public were right all along!
      The latest is the EU directive on Landfill. Each LA was given an upper limit on how much refuse they could bury. Over that figure they would be fined. So we had a variety of 'recycling' ideas where refuse was sorted by homeowners, only to be lumped together when collected! and even sillier, a reduction in Bin collections. This last was enforced to the point of imprisoning people who overloaded their bins. Naturally, bins became smelly, maggot infested and homes to rats. Suprise, suprise the LA's Environmental Health Team became involved.
      "Who is responsible for failing to empty these bins?" they said. "Its ruining our budget all this extra work!".
      When they found out it was their own bosses it was red faces all round and a massively hushed up backpedalling. Now lets apply that thinking to Ethanol in Petrol. If and when it is PUBLICLY known what damage is being done...............

      Cynical? ME?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Peter Rotherham View Post
        As a 'footnote' to this, I've been talking to some of my collegues who, like me, deal with the vagaries of the Local Authority system from time to time. In their efforts to be 100% Politically Correct, and to slavishly follow European Legislation, many of these 'Ivory Tower' establishments haver bought in draconian rulings which, despite being total nonsense and obviously doomed to failure, they have sunk a fortune in Council Tax into, only to find out that the General Public were right all along!
        The latest is the EU directive on Landfill. Each LA was given an upper limit on how much refuse they could bury. Over that figure they would be fined. So we had a variety of 'recycling' ideas where refuse was sorted by homeowners, only to be lumped together when collected! and even sillier, a reduction in Bin collections. This last was enforced to the point of imprisoning people who overloaded their bins. Naturally, bins became smelly, maggot infested and homes to rats. Suprise, suprise the LA's Environmental Health Team became involved.
        "Who is responsible for failing to empty these bins?" they said. "Its ruining our budget all this extra work!".
        When they found out it was their own bosses it was red faces all round and a massively hushed up backpedalling. Now lets apply that thinking to Ethanol in Petrol. If and when it is PUBLICLY known what damage is being done...............

        Cynical? ME?
        Been there, got the Tshirt! I used to be an EHO. Local authorities in particular always have been susceptible to the "latest good (crap) idea". Especially when they're bean-counter driven; and isn't everything these days?

        OFF-TOPIC ALERT!

        Anyway, I hope it's "when" rather than "if" that the ethanol debate goes public. The old vehicle movement is pretty big - and this ethanol nonsense must affect cars, buses, lorries and so on, some worth a great deal of money. The GRA gets a mention in the FBHVC journal for alerting them to the fibreglass tank problem (well done Anglian Man!). We NEED to win this one!
        Colin Sparrow

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        • #34
          Originally posted by John Wakefield View Post
          Neoprene seals
          So this effectively means the end of two strokes as the crankcase seals are Neoprene are they not. Looks like our bikes will become worthless static exhibits.

          In general alcohol in low concentrations, will not have much affect on neoprene rubber crank seals. Higher amounts though will mean failure will occur pretty quickly!

          In most cases far superior "Viton" seals are available to replace neoprene though, and its worth using these at least on the crank.

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          • #35
            As a point of interest, leaded 4 star petrol IS still available. My local garage, Washbrook Service Station, stock it, and I wouldn't use anything else in my two-stroke and four-stroke scramblers. It is a tad more expensive than the unleaded muck, but worth it in the long run. Check the web for other stockists, nationwide.

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            • #36
              glass fibre tanks

              The bigger problem is with the Greeves bikes (& others) that were built with a glass fibre tank, these are likely to be rendered museum pieces & show bikes trailered around. Glad mine has a steel tank, maybe Greeves knew something when they went back to a steel tank on the East Coaster after putting a glass fibre one on the Essex. I bet the new owner of the 32DD will be gutted when he sees the paint blistering. That will add a few more £s to his already over the top price paid on eBay, to put right. As they say buyer beware. Manufacturers of replacement glass fibre tanks need to use the correct ethanaol resistant resins (not boat building ones)

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              • #37
                I see this issue is bubbling up again. The FBHVC has put out some good, objective information and is lobbying for ways of helping all of us in the historic vehicle world. The debate is just beginning.

                The FBHVC info is in the next Leading Link (Dec 1st) along with a "current position" on our fibreglass tanks.

                It's a very real problem for us though. Fuel containing ethanol is likely to damage original Greeves fibreglass tanks. Period.
                Colin Sparrow

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                • #38
                  Fibre Glass Tank

                  Its already too late for many tanks, I have heard recently that Dave Pink has troubles with blistering paint on his TriGreeves.

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                  • #39
                    the Fuel

                    Hi all,

                    I have a Honda rotary mower and at the begining of the grass cutting season filled it up, and it poured out the bottom of the tank, after visiting a local garden machinery shop they supplied a new plastic tank .

                    He said it was not the first that they had to replace, but at that time did not have an answer as to the cause (I bet they do now) also on on my TFS and TES the Monza cap sealant has also started lifting on the inside.

                    Where do we go from here ??

                    Dick F

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                    • #40
                      PetrolTanks/ethanol

                      This posting has just appeared on the Real Classics forum

                      Moving on from the problems ethanol is causing with sealants in classic bike tanks & dissolving fibre glass tanks, the dreaded stuff is now attacking modern bike petrol tanks. There's a class action going to court in USA between a group of owners & Ducati over repeated problems with their plastic tanks.


                      http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/11/19/Ducati.pdf

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                      • #41
                        Bio-Ethanol.

                        I have to second Dick F's note on mowers. My own rotary suffered a wierd 'eating' of the carb insides this winter, and I can't get it to run properly now. Other, vintage, horticultural machinery is being affected. There is accelerated electrolosis betwen brass and alloy. This problem goes deeper than those 'Eco warriors' and the Fuel Cartels who are pushing this muck would have us know.

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                        • #42
                          Arghhh! The little primer button on my Husquavana strimmer has disolved! A replacement for this thumbnail sized thing was £8.50 just for it to disolve again soon! I'm going to cut out the middle man and just pour the ethanol-laden petrol straight on to the weeds! However, I suppose if it is THAT environmentally friendly, it will just help the weeds flourish!

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Rob View Post
                            Arghhh! The little primer button on my Husquavana strimmer has disolved! A replacement for this thumbnail sized thing was £8.50 just for it to disolve again soon! I'm going to cut out the middle man and just pour the ethanol-laden petrol straight on to the weeds! However, I suppose if it is THAT environmentally friendly, it will just help the weeds flourish!

                            Don't quote me on this but I've found petrol, brake fluid and anti-freeze all to be superb weed killers! Unfortunately, they everything else too! Also, it works out a tad expensive.

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                            • #44
                              Diesel woks a treat as well and if you use pink its cheaper and you cant stand accused of being sexist
                              Originally posted by Andy Z View Post
                              Don't quote me on this but I've found petrol, brake fluid and anti-freeze all to be superb weed killers! Unfortunately, they everything else too! Also, it works out a tad expensive.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I read in a mag recently a guy sealed his steel tank but the sealer isn't ethanol resistant and it started leaking again, there is a ethanol resistant sealer available... cant remember what is was called though, have to see if I can find the article....

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