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Griffon ISDT possibly for sale.

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  • Griffon ISDT possibly for sale.

    Leo Cordingley has put this teaser on Facebook. Now comes the questions.....Do any of our esteemed senior members have any info on why they were such a disaster at the ISDT. From what is wrote in various good books, they suffered from probable siezures and the story also recalls parts being sent to the Isle of Man to try to rectify them. Leo reacted to my story by saying that he and his father had used the bike with no problems over a number of years. I'd have it myself but for the fact that if I got on it, my lack of talent would be only too obvious!
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Is that one of the UPA**F bikes Brian, presumably 21 or 24

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    • #3
      NO, it's one of the 1975 Griffons that were "used" by the Army in the ISDT, It was Army registered, but susequently has been given a civvie "J" plate.

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      • #4
        'J' suffix would be 1970/1, 'P' would be 1975/6

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        • #5
          It was rereg from the Army and I am told it has a "J" plate.....Who knows why or where that came from, but that is what I'm told. When I referred to it as 1975, that was the ISDT date not it's build date.
          Last edited by Brian Catt; 12/11/2015, 01:41 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Brian Catt View Post
            It was rereg from the Army and I am told it has a "J" plate.....Who knows why or where that came from, but that is what I'm told. When I referred to it as 1975, that was the ISDT date not it's build date.
            I think the army had a number of Griffons (maybe not all in ISDT spec) there were 6 entered in the 1975 Welsh 2 Day, B Belton 211, T Walker 216; K Ablewhite 219; Sgt Shipley 222; J W Richardson 227 & G Webb 229 all from Bordon. There was also another M Haverson 226 of Kingswinford but not sure if he was Army.
            Out of these. Belton finished (Bronze I think but not shown in results), Walker excluded for change of rider, Ablewhite finished on Bronze, Shipley & Haverson retired, Richardson was a non starter.
            The Royal Signals also had Griffons in their display team, so some of the ISDT bikes may have been rebuilt for use with them. I think anyone buying the bike being offered for sale needs to do a bit of home work on it.
            Last edited by John Wakefield; 14/11/2015, 10:20 AM. Reason: redults of amy riders added

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            • #7
              Originally posted by John Wakefield View Post
              The Royal Signals also had Griffons in their display team, so some of the ISDT bikes may have been rebuilt for use with them.
              It was the other way round, John. The machines ridden by K. Ablewhite and J. Belton in the 1975 ISDT were modified 380 QUBs which had been borrowed from the Royal Artillery display team.

              Neither survived past day two. Greeves' last ISDT appearance.
              Colin Sparrow

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              • #8
                I wonder why they seized? That engine has such a huge fin area, it's unlikely to overheat! Maybe someone forgot the oil...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Andy Z View Post
                  I wonder why they seized? That engine has such a huge fin area, it's unlikely to overheat! Maybe someone forgot the oil...
                  I think the problem may have been that the pistons expanded more than the barrels which as you say Andy would have had more than adequate cooling.
                  Also they were subjected to long periods of running, over harsh terrain.
                  I was at the Isle of Man for the 1975 ISDT and saw Ablewight & Belton on these bikes. They did sound rough.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Andy Z View Post
                    I wonder why they seized? That engine has such a huge fin area, it's unlikely to overheat! Maybe someone forgot the oil...
                    Hi Andy, the finning on my qub 380 has been drastically reduced, for weight reduction, ie every other fin removed & squared off.
                    One of the side effects of this, was that the engine actually ran cooler, i can verify this, as i have tested it against another qub after one race.
                    With a thermal gun, the standard qub was several degrees hotter & had a much higher temp around the exhaust port, as you would expect, but the deffined barrel was much coolera in the same region......

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                    • #11
                      The other factor I'd forgotten of course, it was the Isle of Man, so the fins were probably blocked solid with mud anyway!

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                      • #12
                        Fine theories, but have we any members with definate memories of the events? I think I remember reading that at least one barrel was changed before the ISDT, so could it have been "cold siezures" rather than hot?

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                        • #13
                          Griffon ISDT

                          While I wasn't privy to the autopsy of the failed Griffons I may be able to offer some clues.
                          The QUBs were out and out MX models with a CR of about 12:1. These were fine for 45 minute scrambles when the throttle position tended to be either full open or closed.
                          When used for long periods between these extremes they suffered from a phenomenon known as part throttle detonation mainly because the incomplete scavenging at those throttle openings left the engine running on a highly contaminated mixture.
                          This happened to the Gauntlet army prototype which was only cured when the CR was dropped dramatically.
                          Druid

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                          • #14
                            Thanks for that explanation Druid, it certainly seems to be an answer to this question. I did a similar job on my rather fierce OSSA 6-Days replica to make it more friendly for Trail Riding.
                            The current owner is Leo Cordingly, whose father, Stan, is now in a home with a rather bad case of Dementia. If anyone out there knows Stan, it would be nice to get some more support locally for Leo and his Mum.

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                            • #15
                              In fact our own chairman Rob sussed this out with his trials bike, hence his detailed article in LL with a reworked & reduced compression head.

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