strange

[aa will]

hi the ta that i have started stripping for refurbishment is looking a bit odd,the frame no is 9082TA .after finally getting the barrel of i find it is 57mm bore and a shorter stroke, so must assume the engine is 150cc its got the heavy flywheel a s25 carb with tickover adjusting screw and is 1inch bore ,the clutch arm is modded and a bit welded on the case to match and a wide ratio box,the exhaust is also different from the pictures i have seen more like an expansion chamber fitted hi level on the r/h side. HELP what have i got i will try and get some photos if this will help, but one thing is sure, i doubt it will pull a s/c so if it has been converted from a 197 i will need to change to a 250,

[Colin Sparrow]

Your bike is a mid-1958 20TA Scottish. It would have started life with a 197cc Villiers 9E engine. The original exhaust would have been a chrome-plated modified Villiers silencer mounted at high level at the right rear of the bike. This was the standard Scottish layout 1958-1961.

[John Wakefield]

Looks like you have a Villers 31C (148cc) engine made between 1956 & 1964 this has bore of 57mm x 58mm stroke. It is of similar appearance to the 197cc 9E but of smaller capacity. Here is a pic of one http://www.geocities.ws/julak_acil/v...k31c_148cc.jpg

[Brian Catt]

Just a long-shot.....Would it have been modded to try for a capacity cup in the Scottish Six-Days?

[Colin Sparrow]

The dispatch records show it as allocated to a dealer and with a 9E, so not a works bike.

[John Wakefield]

The 31C engine

Quoting from Villiers Singles & Twins - Roy Bacon

The 31C was introduced at end of 1956 as a replacement for the 147cc 30c which was in effect a bored out 12D (which had the old style pressed alloy flywheel cover.)
The 31c engine dimensions were nearly square at 57 x 58mm & the whole unit was much more streamlined (like the 9E), although still built up on exactly the same lines (as 30C).
Both 3 & 4 speed versions were available & within the crankcase, turned full circle flywheels. The crankshaft ran on two ball bearings on the drive side & a single roller on the magneto side which had its cam mounted outboard under a separate small cover. This attached to a streamlined cover that enclosed both the magneto & kick start mechanism.
The head and barrel continued as in the past, but tilted forward a little, while the crankcase & gearbox castings ran higher so a hole was provided in them for the float chamber. A drain ran to the underside of the unit where the speedometer drive bolted to the gearbox. The boxes were common to other models & the 31C was offered for other uses with fan cooling & electric start. The 31C ran into the mid 1960's

The 31C was not used by Greeves for production bikes, or for that matter by many other British motorcycle manufacturers, Excelsior Ambassador & DMW being three of the few who used it in road bikes. I think the majority were used in scooters.
The 31C had a S19 carb with 80 main jet; 35 pilot jet; 3 1/2 taper needle; set out 1.97; throttle slide 2 1/2

[trialrider17]

strange

Looks like you might be right Brian
I owned an Anglian which Ally Cameron rode in the 1966 Scottish in the 150cc Class it was fitted with a 31c engine by the factory .There is a photo of Ally riding the bike in British Trials Motorcycles "Men and Their Machines"
The reg number OVW65D and the Frame number was 24TG375 no S.
I have a copy of the loan of competition department works motorcycles which the bike is listed on.I also spoke the Chris who remebered working on the bike at the factory. So Greeves did build a bike with a Villiers 31C engine maybe only the one.
Simon

[Brian Catt]

My memory was that there was at least one time when a Greeves ran as a 150cc for Class taking purposes, maybe there were more, whether works, dealer or private supported. Has anyone got the list of Scottish results or programmes from that era?

[Brian Catt]

A search through my own library, located in the West Wing of Catt Towers, finds the excellent tome by Tommy Sandham titled "The Scottish, 1900-1962".
On page 95 it tells that Ali Cameron (150 Greeves) lost 7 marks on time but still went on to claim the 150cc Cup. That was the 1962 Scottish Six-Days Trial, so it might pay to do some more research on the bike to see if this is likely to be this historic machine.
Unfortunately there are no photos of the bike concerned and the only Greeves pics shown are Jill Savage on PBL 349? (Bit out of focus) and Tommy McNab on YSR 343 in 1961.

[trialrider17]

strange

This may be of intrest https://trialsguru.wordpress.com/tag/fort-william/

[John Wakefield]

This may be of intrest https://trialsguru.wordpress.com/tag/fort-william/

Interestingly it quotes the capacity of 149cc, the 31C engine is 148cc. AMC produced a 149cc engine So could it have been one of these? More likely though a typing error.

His Scottish 150cc capacity win attracted the attention of the Greeves factory at Thundersley, Essex and Allie received factory support in the shape of a 149cc bike (XWC 264) for the ‘63 Scottish. Cameron lifted the cup a second time for the loss of 120 marks with his closest rival being Gordon Farley, on a Triumph supported by Jock Hitchcock, who dropped 174 marks. Greeves were happy with the result and used it to best effect in their adverts in the motorcycle press for many months later.

The standard 31C produced only 6.3 bhp as against 8.4 for the 9E & 12.4 for the 32A. But with a bit of tuning I suppose it could have been increased & made competitive. The gearbox was I think the same as the larger engines so a choice of ratios would have been available

[John Wakefield]

OVW 65D still lives

According to DVLA the 24TG (OVW 65D) is still around & taxed as a 250
(the Date of First Registration in 1996 would have been when it went onto DVLA from old buff logbook)

The vehicle details for OVW 65D are:
Date of Liability 01 05 2014
Date of First Registration 12 01 1996
Year of Manufacture 1966
Cylinder Capacity (cc) 250cc
CO₂ Emissions Not Available
Fuel Type PETROL
Export Marker N
Vehicle Status Licence Due to Expire
Vehicle Colour NOT STATED
Vehicle Type Approval Not Available

There is no DVLA record for PBL 349 or YSR 343

[trialrider17]

strange

When I brought OVW65D in 1995 it had no documents it was fitted with a 250 Anglian engine .And with the help of Andrew King we managed to get the original number and thats why date of first registration is 12-01-1996. I sold the bike to Don Morley and dont know what happened to it after that.

[John Wakefield]

When I brought OVW65D in 1995 it had no documents it was fitted with a 250 Anglian engine .And with the help of Andrew King we managed to get the original number and thats why date of first registration is 12-01-1996. I sold the bike to Don Morley and dont know what happened to it after that.

Maybe Don will come up & bring us up to date, he does occasional post on here

[Brian Catt]

We seem to have a slight variance with dates, as my book only covers the 62 Trial, whereas the trialsguru piece puts the Greeves win in 63. Ignoring this, we see that at least 2 such bikes were prepared, so where was the original bike delivered to?