'Kit' Off-Road Bikes of the 60's and 70's.

[Brian Thompson]

Dicky's Sprite.

Hi mate,

Pic posted as requested, and thanks for sending it in bud.

Nice little Mini pick-up as well!

Brian T.

[John Wakefield]

Sprite Trials

The one I had was a later one with REH forks like the one in this Motor Cycle test in 1966. Still a load of crap though despite what Peter Fraser says.

[Phil Hyde]

Catching up

A few loose ends here.

Firstly, Brian.

Sorry mate, Brittens are too rare. The dozen or so that were made are in safe hands and way beyond my pocket.

Secondly,

I liked the mini pick up. Good ones go for crazy money, and would be too good to use on the road save for the odd day in the summer.

Comments about the quality of Sprite machines are interesting. You got what you paid for in most cases. I think it's worth recalling that Greeves produced some quite dire offerings, especially when it came to quality. The millennium Anglian being a recent example.

Peter Fraser was a good journalist, as well as a good rider. Quite often his reports had to be read a bit tongue in cheek. Not so much what he said as to what he didnt say............

All the British factories made some pretty dire offerings that sadly have passed into classic status. Mostly promoted by the modern day classic press.

[dave higgins]

Agreed there phil, if you buy the cheapest bike on the market, what do you expect!!!, although the riders ability is also a factor...

[Phil Hyde]

you cant buy success

How right you are Brian. I remember the first time I rode a modern trials bike. A GasGas actually. If you had the b#lls to hang on it would take you there in a choice of gears!! Personal confidence might improve, but ability reaches a plateau, guided by self preservation.

I'll stick to my pre-65 trials thank you, easy/easier route.

Roll on Greeves days 2014?????

[Brian Thompson]

Nothing succeeds like a budgie with no teeth...

Hi Phil, Dave,

Great posts chaps, still chuckling....!

But Phil.....I think you may be getting me and Dave confused there (although it wouldn't be the the first time we were confused...! ) I, of course, am the good looking one...

....and regarding the Britten.....I meant one of these...! http://www.britten.co.nz/shop/model.html Very sad to hear that all the stocks were lost at the factory in the dreadful earthquake...I heard the story about one of the bikes being rescued (at great risk), but what a tragedy it was for the people of Christchurch....

However, I do have these (see attached) and the film, of course. Not exactly cheap with the import duty on top, but I really wanted them.


Brian.

[dave higgins]

Hi Dave, i agree! you are the good looking one, but i must say, either petes still suffering from jet lag or the ozzy beer has got better!!!!! still its not often he gets his words muxed ip... merry xmas phil.... brian..

[Brian Thompson]

Beer Goggles!

Ha ha........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Merry Christmas chaps!

[Brian Thompson]

'Kit' bikes, an 'affordable' route for the clubman back in the day.

Back to the topic in hand.....

So if Sprites were so 'crap' then, maybe it also explains why so many old off-road bikes seems to require 'modification' in order to be used as intended these days.....and I mean everything, from AJS to Zundapp....I kinda like the challenge of riding a 'standard' bike mesen, warts and all, but each to their own of course. I guess if you'd spent thousands getting a bike 'competitive' for todays pre65 scene (ee got titanium handlebar grips!), then scenes like these (as Rob commented) from the recent Downland trial may show how far some people have drifted from the roots and ethos of the sport, sadly....

(Quote) "They now seem to have been replaced by ultra competitive riders on twinshock and trick machinery with a win-at-all-costs attitude. At least this is what it seems like having watched one rider threaten another because he moved his bike, parked thoughtlessly in the way of the section. There was also the rider grabbing an observer by the throat because he did not like the way the section was marked out! It does not bode well for the future of Pre-65!" (Unquote.)

I always thought that the 'kit' bikes provided a hard working chap with a 'cut price' (no tax) means to participate (as opposed to hunt pots!) in a bit of sport at the weekend, back in the day, progressing (as Dicky commented) onto 'better' rides as skills improved and funds allowed.

They certainly seem popular these days though, and attract a bit of interest whenever one is spotted....

Brian.

[dave higgins]

Brian, regarding robs comments on abuse by trial riders ( what ever they are? ), if thats true, then the riders concerned should be banned for life.
I have never seen anything like that at a scramble, & hope i never do, as its more likely the fellow riders will deal with the transgressor first & the organisers can have whats left....
Terrible behaviour.... regards... st david of somerset.

[John Wakefield]

I think the problem was with the kit bikes was that yes in many cases they were aimed at the clubman with limited cash, the Villiers 37A was still available & a lot of small manufacturers tried their luck. Some including Sprite & Cotton & Dalesmen amongst others also tried smaller engined bikes after the demise of Villiers, with engines such as Minerelli, Sachs, Zundapp & of course Puch in the case of the Pathfinder, all of which were totally unsuitable for trials.
Whilst in the hands of aces these bikes could get awards, but in the hands of the clubman looking to upgrade from his ageing Greeves Scottish they did not perform any better, & in fact the quality was not up to Greeves standard so bits soon wore out like the swinging arm bushes in the Sprite.
What really saw off the kit bikes was the emergance of Bultaco & Montessa and when the clubmen got their hands on these they started getting in the awards. (everyone is a pot hunter by nature)

[Brian Thompson]

Just an observation....

Yes mate, I was pretty shocked myself when I read Rob's comments.....

I can only support your comments re the pre 65 scrambles scene Dave, as I have only ever found events to be friendly, fun and best of all, people actually (gasp) TALK to each other...! I used to take Wendy and the boys to our 'local' meeting at beautiful Snowshill in the Cotswolds, before we lost the venue when the landowner sadly passed away. We always had nothing other than a really fun, safe and happy family day out. My friends David and John Stonebridge (cousin's to Brian) would heartily agree I'm sure. The wonderful atmosphere, the sounds, the smells, you lads get it spot on for me, speaking as a spectator. From the things many other members have said on here as well, I know I am not alone in thinking this. Big credit too, as ever, to Dave Harper with the Greeves Series here, and to everyone else involved in promoting the wider sport.

Back to trials, a few years back my Wendy once helped out with observing a section at a certain trial, and it wasn't the best of weather to say the least. Sadly, a long, cold, wet day ensued for the riders, not to mention the observers, standing around for hours on a cold, dark, wet woodland hillside, the mud sticking to your boots and turning them into lead weights as the water drips off the end of your nose. As you can see, I take her to all the best places....

Anyway, she was great of course, and practical girl that she is coped with it all really well, also considering she had only just digested the rules. She didn't get a single complaint all day either...strangely enough....! A few riders even said 'thank you' as they came around....*

Brian T.

(* Trials Riders Rule #1....always thank your observer, particularly if the conditions have been bad-manners cost nothing.)

[Dick F]

kit off road bikes of the 60s 70s

Thanks for the picture you put on for me Brian, brought back happy memories of my late Father cutting next doors grass, as a matter of fact wish i had that pick up now i remember buying it new and Cost £375- 00 plus £25 extra for the hood, cant remember the cost of the Sprite but you saved purchase tax on it as a kit form buy

[Brian Thompson]

Dicky's pic.

My pleasure Dicky, pleased to help out mate. Didn't realise that was your dad in the pic as well, nice memories.

Yes, bet we've all had stuff like that Mini, which we wish we still had.....

Brian.

[Phil Hyde]

trick bikes

Back to BTs thread about trick bikes in modern pre-65. It's a fact of life that you need to alter an old bike to ride in pre-65 events. The need for trick bits is ok. To save weight the most cost effective route is to go on a diet.

I was once accused of having a trick Triumph-Greeves. It weighed 340lbs at the time, including, my ex-works YZ folding gear lever with titanium pin!!!!