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  • ISDE Vintage Class

    I have just returned from the ISDE in France where some of our guys did well, only a pity that our World Trophy Team were a bit under powered because several of our best riders were saving themselves for their World Enduro Championship events to come soon.
    We actually scored 2 class wins, one in the modern stuff and one in the Vintage section. The FIM decided to call the class rules, so the oldest bikes are in the "Classic 72" category. Jason McNee won this class from fairly weak opposition (2 OSSAs) riding a 650 Cheney-Triumph that has a bog-standard touring engine.
    No other British bike was entered, although we were well represented on foreign machinery. Now the big question........what Greeves would the panel suggest to enter a future ISDE in this class? Would a Griffon Enduro last the 3 days of intense competition? Would we ever find a rider that would last the 3 days?????

  • #2
    If the FIM rule out pre 1972 bikes there is not a lot of choice for a Greeves as it rules out all the earlier 'successful' ones. Even if they were eligible where would you find one that the owner would allow to compete. So it would have to be a Griffon Enduro, but only 3 of these are known to survive.
    Last edited by John Wakefield; 12/09/2017, 09:34 AM.

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    • #3
      John, the Classic 72 means pre-72, similarly Classic 76, Classic 79, Classic 82 and Evo 86 classes are "before the date" categories. One major problem is that the organisers are happy to let the old bikes have their turn on the tests after the 600 modern ones have carved it to pieces. Many of the Vintage entry were riding to survive, not to set good times! I was impressed that 2 British ladies finished on their 175 Suzukis, in time, but near the bottom of their class. The "road" timing seemed to be quite lax, so very few competitors were timed out unless they had big problems.

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      • #4
        Thanks for explanation Brian, fact is that surviving Greeves ISDT bikes are rare & now collectors items so too valuable to be submitted to such a beating. Suzuki, Honda ,Ossa, Bultaco etc made far more production enduro bikes.where as Greeves built few for general sale. most it would appear went to USA.

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        • #5
          The fact that factory-built ISDT bikes are few and far between would not bar a rider from building a suitable machine from components available at the time. One gent did get a bit of a warning at scrutineering for using modern rims on his bike, but as the original pattern are no longer available, they were allowed "this time"! Some of the more modern bikes were beyond my knowledge, but seemed well endowed with suspension movement. Most riders were out to enjoy the ride, even if the top of the pile were really going for it!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Brian Catt View Post
            Would we ever find a rider that would last the 3 days?????
            If someone will lend me a suitable Greeves and everything else such as times work, I'll have a shot. I promise I'll be kind to the machine

            Failing that is someone willing to prep my TFS (with reversible mods)? I believe they were used for enduros.

            Originally posted by Brian Catt
            Most riders were out to enjoy the ride
            What it's all about....

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            • #7
              Once upon a time.....MZ and Jawa were invincible. Last week, no Jawas and the only MZ failed early with gearbox problems. The Barigo Honda was nice, or if I were 6 stone lighter......the Cardel or Accossato went well for tiddlers!

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              • #8
                Hi Brian,
                I am happy to build a Griffon or Challenger enduro but Chile is a bit far for next year. Maybe the year after if its closer.

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                • #9
                  Sounds good! My trawl through the results shows the Pre-72 class winner, Jason McNee, had a winning time 20% over the event winning time put up by an SWM. Good machine the Cheney Triumph maybe, but it's not wholly suitable for the modern format of the combination of tests seen in the ISDE.
                  The French tests were a combination of open country and woods going, but were very twisting and didn't allow the bigger bikes the opportunity to use their speed to compensate for the advantage that the lighter bikes had in the twisties. The tests only last about 10 minutes each, but are quite hard riding, with virtually nowhere to relax!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Brian Catt View Post
                    I have just returned from the ISDE in France where some of our guys did well, only a pity that our World Trophy Team were a bit under powered because several of our best riders were saving themselves for their World Enduro Championship events to come soon.
                    We actually scored 2 class wins, one in the modern stuff and one in the Vintage section. The FIM decided to call the class rules, so the oldest bikes are in the "Classic 72" category. Jason McNee won this class from fairly weak opposition (2 OSSAs) riding a 650 Cheney-Triumph that has a bog-standard touring engine.
                    No other British bike was entered, although we were well represented on foreign machinery. Now the big question........what Greeves would the panel suggest to enter a future ISDE in this class? Would a Griffon Enduro last the 3 days of intense competition? Would we ever find a rider that would last the 3 days?????
                    Hi Brian,

                    We built this clone based off an 24MX5 Nicholson spec Challenger. These came standard with the wide ratio gearbox and larger tank. Customer preferred the Ceriani forks over the bananas. For sparks we used an MZB (Powerdynamo) with lighting coils. We custom machined the ignition backing plate, using a Motoplat cover off a late model Griffon. Customer requested the center stand which required much work. We hand built the exhaust with fiberglass internals for some muffling and added a little USFD spark arrestor. It did turn out rather nice, but much work was involved. Eliminating the center stand for a Anglian type side stand would have saved some headaches on this one. The tool bag was copied from an original we had, which wasn't cheap to do, but we do have the patterns. I decided not to go with the quick detachable wheels and such and this would have increased the cost even more. Would I do it again? I'm not so sure!
                    Attached Files

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                    • #11
                      WELL.......that matches my dream pretty much spot on! I think it looks much nicer than the Griffon Enduros and may be better to ride in tight woods going. That has given me food for thought Kenny!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Brian Catt View Post
                        WELL.......that matches my dream pretty much spot on! I think it looks much nicer than the Griffon Enduros and may be better to ride in tight woods going. That has given me food for thought Kenny!
                        Thank you Brian. The Challenger first started off for me for the ISDT Reunion here in the states, but I was approached by a friend who wanted the same thing. I used the Comerford Challengers for an example. We have many MX3/5 frames in inventory, so I we can do another or two. I also would like to build a special Griffon Enduro. I have more projects than time now!


                        Kenny

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